Wednesday, November 3, 2010
The Cave... and F451
We read and discussed The Cave today in class. I would like you to draw parallels between it and what you know about F451. Look back to the allusions post and check out what Brianna had to say and what I responded to her. Have fun with this discussion... it should be an interesting topic for you to explore.
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The Cave and F 451
The cave almost directly represents Fahrenheit 451. The Society and Mildred and even Guy, in the beginning, are in the cave. With constants distractions they never learned to think or stop to smell the roses, but thats how they grew up, they grew up in the dark. When Guy meets the light, who is in the form of Clarisse, he starts to understand. It takes a while, but when the urge to understand he brings Mildred into the light. But, Mildred is too stubborn she’s seen what the light does to his eyes, and she doesn’t want that either. The longer they linger in the light the more they understand. Which is exactly what the government does not want.
Honestly the Cave seemed like it might as well be the society in Fahrenheit 451. In F451 the world just sits back and watches things go by, never really stopping to think about things. They develop their own idea of "fun" and things that should be awarded and things that should be punishable. They are essentially blind. Then when someone find books or has books, immediately that person is a threat or is strange and different. It is more of a mob mentality than anything else. If someone has a new or revolutionary idea it is immediately suppressed and that person labeled an outcast for using their mind and expanding their scope. Just like in The Cave allegory a man is released and shown the world. Then he goes back and tries to convince his fellows that there is something better, so much better, than what they have, but that person no longer thinks like the others, so that person isn't normal and is killed for thinking differently. As was Clarisse, she thought, therefore she wasn't normal, and was killed.
The three people In the cave are like the people living in the society in Fahrenheit 451. They have never seen anything different so they don't want to change the way they live. Guy is like the person in the cave that was freed. The person in the cave was shown the outside world and when he was forced to return he didn't want to live the way he had lived before. He couldn't convince the other two people that there was something better in life than looking at shadows. Guy is the same way, once clarisse started asking him question he started to think about things. He realized that he wasn't really happy and he didn't love his wife. Guy couldn't even remember where they had met. Now that guy has opened his eyes to the potential things he could do he doesn't want to go back to being brainwashed and it will be very hard for him to convince anyone to change. The rest of the people in this society think they are fine just the way they are. Just like the other to people in the cave don't want to leave the place.
I made a few connections between the cave and Fahrenheit 451. Right at the beginning of the story it seemed that Guy was one of the people in the cave. He was never shown the light. He was never shown true happiness, he was just so busy all the time that he didn't have time to think if he was happy or not. The government told him how to live his life. They made it so he couldn't think. The government did this to everyone. Their the ones who made books illegal because books make people unhappy and no one wants that. After Guy met Clarisse he started coming out of this cave he was stuck in. He was starting to see that light that no one else saw. He started to notice things like the rain. He noticed Clarisse which no one seemed to have done before.
Clarisse was definitely out of the cave. I doubt she has ever even seen the cave. She knows so much about nature and books and other things that she couldn't be in the cave. She has seen true happiness. She isn't a person who can't get away from the parlor walls, or one you have to punch in the face to get their attention. She has true feelings.
Everyone else in this book that I've met so far seem like they are in the cave. They are always distracted by something. They all seem like they have tunnel vision and don't pay attention to nature or any important issues besides themselves. Books don't even exist to most of these people.
The cave is like F541 because the society is in it's own little cave or bubble so to speak. Mildred, Guy, the firefighters, everyone are the people chained to the wall, forced to watch the shadows. Clarisse, who is now gone, is sort of the light for Guy, Guy being the man let off of the chains. Clarisse sort of blinds Guy with all her ridiculous ideas and thoughts of things that don't happen in their society. After awhile, Guy starts to get used to the light, his eyes adjusting to Clarisse and her thoughts. Then when Clarisse dies Guy goes back into the cave with the rest of his society. He goes back to what he knew, but his haven't adjusted yet, he's still seeing Clarisse and what she sees. The people in the cave, or the society, don't understand Clarisse's ideas. They would think Guy is crazy if he shared all his new thoughts with the society, them saying that his thoughts are just blurred now, that he only came back with a messed up head.
It was extremely easy to make connections with F451 and The Cave. It is clear that the society in F451 is in the cave, specifically Mildred and Guy, because all these people have known is what the government tells them. They don’t know about the rest of the world. They don’t have any books, and they believe books are bad. They believe that houses have always been fireproof, and that firemen have always started the fires. It is just like the men chained to the wall. All they know is the shadows that talk on the wall. They don’t know that there is people behind them speaking for the shadows. They haven’t seen any different. When the man is taken out of the cave, it is just like Montag meeting Clarisse and realizing things are wrong with the world. The man in the cave eventually realizes how good life is outside of the cave, even though it takes him a little while to believe that the shadows were never real. After this man finds about the rest of the world, he doesn’t want to go back. This is just like Montag. Montag finally realizes that there is more than just the parlor walls and the Seashells that are always in peoples ears. It takes him a little while to believe this, but he does. He realizes there is more in the world, and there is a reason books are illegal. Once Montag discovers this, he doesn’t want to go back to the same thinking he had before. He doesn’t want to keep living the same way as everyone else, being “happy.” When he tries to explain this to Mildred, she doesn’t want to believe him. She wants to live in the safety of her parlor walls because that is what she has known, and she thinks Montag is crazy, just like how the other men in the cave believed. Even though it would be difficult for the person who left the cave to convince everyone back in it that what he believes is real, it’s doable, because he was also that way in the beginning and he changed.
In both the Cave and Fahrenheit 451, there are examples of taking words and pictures too literally. In the Cave, the people chained to the walls really think the shadows are talking, because what else would be talking? In F451, the people live with fake families and unreal happiness because they don’t know any better! Mildred can’t imagine thinking about something that is not real, or something that isn’t concrete. I have realized that abstract ideas in the future world of F451 are nonexistent. All thought is based on fact, not fiction. In the Cave, the same idea is expressed. Everything the prisoners see is real to them, they have absolutely nothing to compare it to. In both stories, the characters are exposed to the outside world and have a hard time believing what they see or learn. All the characters end up returning to what they know best in order to share their gained knowledge. But, unfortunately, their new found knowledge was not believable to the others.
The cave in the story is most definitely like the society in Fahrenheit 451. The people of the caves have been kind of mind controlled into believing that the real things are only the shadows that they see, and thats just like how the people in the society believe that what they have been told about books is true. Guy is is just like the man that was released into the real world, because when the man tried to convince the other people in the cave of what he discovered to be the real world, they wouldn't believe him because of how unbelievable it seems to them. That's almost the exact same as how when Guy tries to convince Mildred that the books may not be as bad as everyone says they are and Mildred just repeated what Beatty said to Guy minutes before. The other person that was like the man from the cave was Clarisse, because she saw things in a different way than all of the people in the society, she was killed just like the man from the cave.
The cave is in some ways just like Fahrenheit 451. I see Beatty as being like the people that were chained to the wall. Beatty thinks books are useless because in fiction books, everything is fake and about nonexistent people. It's like he doesn't want to expand his mind or imagination. That is similar to the people chained on the wall. They don't want to believe anything other than what they've known all their lives! I guess the people chained to the wall are like a lot of people in the society in Fahrenheit 451, because if they weren't, books would be legal. If people wanted to expand their imaginations and minds then they would want to read, and not despise books! The people chained to the walls in the cave are oblivious to all the other places and objects in life, just as Beatty and the others in the society are oblivious to all the interesting stories and information books provide.
I think that The Cave and F451 are very much alike. I think that in a way the cave that the people are trapped in, in The Cave represents the society in F451. In a way the people in F451 are trapped in a cave. They have no knowledge of the outside world, just as the people in The Cave have no knowledge of the outside world. The light that the man steps into in The Cave represents the books that Guy Montag starts to read. Reading the books opens up a new world to Montag, just as the light shows the man a new world.
Mickenzy, I would like to comment on how you said F451 had a mob like mentality. They really do all think alike, and make their own decisions. The people of F451 are really stubborn in reality too, I mean, if you think about how they act and how they adapt to new ideas, they don't accept the new information very well. They would all just rather stick to what they know. And yes, in both worlds, nothing different is accepted.
Devon:
This is a new perspective on this idea. I hadn't actually thought of it in this way before, and I do agree with it, I also believe mine is still valid. It is always good to see a fresh perspective that is agreeable. It really does make sense the world itself was the people in the cave and that Clarisse was the one outside of the cave, because society killed her, just like the people in the cave killed the other person for being strange and unusual. Although it seemed that the government and society as a whole were the people in the cave, and not so much just Montag.
I am commenting on Lindsey’s blogpost. I don’t exactly believe that their new knowledge is not believable to the others. I believe if they brought the light to the others they’d probably start believing. I don’t understand exactly how you can relate the people talking in the cave to the fake families, I think you might need to go into a little more into detail when talking about that. Also, I don’t agree with “All thought is based on fact not fiction”, because in F 451 they believe about the fake firemen stories. Benjamin Franklin was not a burner of books, that is a fact not fiction. What is fiction is that they believe that he was. I also believe that it is human nature to have a hard time believing in something when you learned it a different way.
The Cave and F 451 The cave almost directly represents Fahrenheit 451. The Society and Mildred and even Guy, in the beginning, are in the cave. With constants distractions they never learned to think or stop to smell the roses, but thats how they grew up, they grew up in the dark. When Guy meets the light, who is in the form of Clarisse, he starts to understand. It takes a while, but when the urge to understand he brings Mildred into the light. But, Mildred is too stubborn she’s seen what the light does to his eyes, and she doesn’t want that either. The longer they linger in the light the more they understand. Which is exactly what the government does not want. -Brianna
This is Doug’s comment on Brianna’s comment. I agree with all that’s written here, but I believe that Mildred is still too naive to comprehend the importance in which these books posses. She doesn’t show the same yearning to learn as Guy does, he’s willing to take risks to read these books but his wife is still fickle. Somewhat still in the cave, Mildred is, and Montag’s trying to, more or less, drag her out instead of giving her the option to walk out on her own. I think that Mildred might pose a threat later on in the book, one slip up and Montag’s world could come crashing down around him in a swarm of burning books.
Response to Louis:
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Guy is definitely like the person who was released in the real world, because he used to believe everything the government told him, like the man in the cave used to only believe the shadows. When Guy tries to tell Mildred what he has discovered with his new insight, Mildred just thinks he’s going crazy. Now that we know Beatty also knows of all the good things books have because he clearly reads them himself, it’s like he is a man from the cave that has also been out into the real world but doesn’t want anyone knowing about what he knows, because maybe he fears being thought of as crazy, plus the firemen would most likely have to burn his house down if they found out.
Mickenzy, I would like to comment on how you said F451 had a mob like mentality. They really do all think alike, and make their own decisions. The people of F451 are really stubborn in reality too, I mean, if you think about how they act and how they adapt to new ideas, they don't accept the new information very well. They would all just rather stick to what they know. And yes, in both worlds, nothing different is accepted.
I agree with Shauna about the relationship between the people trapped in Cave and the people in F451. The people in the book F451 are trapped in there brainwashed society just like the 3 people are trapped in the cave. In both situations the people have never known anything different in there life so they don’t want to know. The cave people are fine just the way they are, looking at shadows. The people in the society of F451 are fine not thinking or reading book. I also agree that Guy Montag is like the man who left the cave. Once the person left the cave they wanted to live in the outside forever but he couldn’t convince the others to leave the cave. Once Guy started reading he wanted to keep reading but he isn’t going to be able to convince others to follow him.
I am commenting on Brianna's!
I agree with your post Brianna! Your post was very similar to what I posted. The cave does almost exactly represent F451. The society is the cave that Mildred and Guy are trapped in, until Guy sees the "light". I do think, however, that the light in The Cave more represents the books that Guy has than Clarisse. I'm not saying I totally disagree because Clarisse is, in a way, a form of the light, but I think the big picture is the light representing the books. I agree with what you said about Mildred seeing what the "light" does to Guy. I never thought about it like that. Mildred is too stubborn to see what the light does, and the good that comes with looking into the light.
This is in response to Casidee.
I kind of agree with your idea on Beatty being like the people chained to the walls in the cave. I think that Beatty has his own way of thinking about why he burns the books that he might read. Beatty probably is against burning the books but he doesn't want to get caught reading them and go to one of the asylums.
The people in the society of Fahrenheit 451 have more ways of expanding their imaginations. They can hear them from word of mouth maybe making them think about the story and what could have happened. This most likely would have expanded their imaginations at least a little each story.
Emily Acritelli commenting on Melanie Robitaille: You’re comment was very similar to mine, I have to agree with pretty much everything you said. The man is just like Montag, not wanting to believe what Clarisse was saying at first, but after awhile his eyes finally adjusted. He saw what was happening and what was wrong. After Guy had ‘left the cave’ so to speak he changed his ways. The thing is, Montag had those books before Clarisse had come along, so it’s like the man chained to the wall is starting to become skeptical about the shadows and the voices. When Guy tries to share this Mildred, she shuts him down, saying that he shouldn’t be doing this. She doesn’t understand the importance of books and thinks that ‘his eyes are worse’. Everyone would think that he’s crazy, but his eyes are worse. Beatty is like the people putting the shadows on, he knows what’s happening and what’s going on, but he is just going to play along with what the other people say. He’s like the puppeteer. HARRY POTTER ROCKS!
I'm commenting on Alex's comment:
I agree with your thinking of how Guy is the one being freed from the cave. I never thought of it that way when I was writing mine. I figured he was already freed. At the beginning of Fahrenheit 451 he was definitely in the cave. As he went along he seemed to be freed from the cave by Clarisse. Once Clarisse was gone it was like the person who had to return to the cave. He didn't want to go back to how he was living before. You are right about the people in the society not wanting to come out of the cave. For instance when Guy tried to convince Mildred to read books. She was against it and didn't want to.
Response to Emily's comment...
I agree with part of your comment, but I also disagree with some of it. I don't think Guy went back into the cave after Clarisse died, he pretty much stayed the same. I do agree that he was in the cave before though, until Clarisse "let him out." Guy has now realized the greatness about books and he's not turning back just because Clarisse died. He is continuing to read books, but I agree that the people back in the cave wouldn't understand Clarisse's ideas. However, they will not know her ideas because Guy won't go back in the cave!!
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